Feminism in the Black Community

[GreenJagWar]

What are your opinions on Feminism and its spread among most Black women? Womanism? How familiar are you with the history of feminism? Can you defend against feminist attacks on Black males? Do you know the first feminists were racists, that abortion's acceptance in mainstream is due a good deal to controlling the Black population?

Do you have a different view of feminism and its place in a Black community?

[GreenJagWar]

I can't see feminism as anything other than a white supremacist issue created by white women to give them more power and to bait Black women into pressuring white men. Black men have none of the power that feminists speak about yet Black women are generally unwilling to hear criticism from Black men least of all. This is little more than a socially-enacted genocide.

Womanism is still pro-woman but this is a more specific version for Black women to feel included in feminism. It has many of the same idea's as far as I know but may be a little softer.

I want to believe that the first Black 'feminists' (or people we call feminists) knew that the criticisms of masculinity don't apply to Black men because they had no power to display. This is not to say that Black men didn't commit terrible acts against Black women, what I am saying is that Black men and Black women are equally guilty of the violence in relationships. The stats, when judged evenly and fairly are pretty much one to one for relationship abuse and violence. That means Black women hurt, maim, and kill Black men too.

What else can be done about feminism in the Black community other than destroying and discarding it? It doesn't seek equality for Black women, instead it forces inequality since Black men already face the dominant judicial hand of the state, often a deadly occasion. Many women will even use the state against Black men. Is there any solution to this problem in the community?

[Atokunla]

When Black Feminism was getting started in the 70s, most Black Women (like my first wife) complained of suppression--having to comply with the "barefoot and pregnant" destinies they faced in Jim Crow era marriages. I felt Feminism sneak into my marriage and i responded by researching Masculinity/Manhood from a Black perspective. My wife's complaints were more about how she was brought up than my being oppressive. She knew I was being oppressed as a Black man committed to Black Liberation.
I know now it would have been better for me to learn how to express caring in more ways than sex--which, at the time, I thought was all i had to do, other than keep a good job and be a good dad.
My ex-wife became a feminist and grew in power to work in our children's best interests. School systems shook when she took up a cause fir Black children. We agreed on both of us doing that and it worked. Four babies with her, four adults with at least one college degree each and nobody sleeping on either one of our couches.
My daughters are Black Womanists--which is different than Feminists because it's rooted in Woman's power to define Human as a product of the Womb's mystery work with very small seeds. Womanists don't threaten men who are committed to human development. It takes female and male power to redefine Black reality in post-Jim Crow America.

[KOOLKEV]

Feminism is not the problem. The problem is anti-male actives posing as feminist. That the problem that need to be address.

[GreenJagWar]

Feminism is not the problem. The problem is anti-male actives posing as feminist. That the problem that need to be address.

I don't see any evidence of that. The messages of anger and hate for the Black man comes from feminists: white, Black, etc. Their message is still quite unified, so to claim posers would indicate that there must be some fighting or some arguments to show evidence of it. If not, then why make this claim?

[NYC Noir]

Feminism is the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes. What exactly is wrong with this?

This whole platform is toxic and filled with uninformed men, posing as experts on topics they know absolutely nothing about. If this is the best we can offer, we are doomed. I'm out!

[GreenJagWar]

What are you a child? You've done nothing but repeated all the same tired feminists nonsense. What has feminism done for Black women? Thanks for coming here and stating nothing new and providing nothing useful. Real Black people aren't running because they can't. Good riddance to the ignorant and uninformed!

[KOOLKEV]

I don't see any evidence of that. The messages of anger and hate for the Black man comes from feminists: white, Black, etc. Their message is still quite unified, so to claim posers would indicate that there must be some fighting or some arguments to show evidence of it. If not, then why make this claim?

The evidence is in the name itself Feminism. What being practice today is not equality for women; But anti-male rhetoric posing as equality for women. Just like BLM is about destroying the traditional black family posing as a black liberation movement.

[GreenJagWar]

The evidence is in the name itself Feminism. What being practice today is not equality for women; But anti-male rhetoric posing as equality for women. Just like BLM is about destroying the traditional black family posing as a black liberation movement.

So, why do you believe feminism is about equality? The history of feminism is no different; the first wave, they ignored Black voters and when all women got to vote there were still men who couldn't. Or when women fought for primary custody it was convenient that they also didn't fight for primary financial responsibility, that is usually completely on the man. And the Dear Colleague letter's and the lies that take hold in college where most of the rape accusations happen with little evidence and is a permanent stain on your record either way, plus much more.

Will you ever provide evidence for this claim you make? Not an example, evidence of actual feminist messages that deny the male hate many feminists continually display.

[KOOLKEV]

So, why do you believe feminism is about equality? The history of feminism is no different; the first wave, they ignored Black voters and when all women got to vote there were still men who couldn't. Or when women fought for primary custody it was convenient that they also didn't fight for primary financial responsibility, that is usually completely on the man. And the Dear Colleague letter's and the lies that take hold in college where most of the rape accusations happen with little evidence and is a permanent stain on your record either way, plus much more.

Will you ever provide evidence for this claim you make? Not an example, evidence of actual feminist messages that deny the male hate many feminists continually display.

Again the evidence is in the name itself Feminism. There nothing feminine about the movement. The word feminine is define as: having qualities or an appearance traditionally associated with women. A anti-male activist posing as feminine is the point I'm trying to make. The name Feminism doesn't support there agenda. Look at it from a wolf in sheep clothing perspective.

[GreenJagWar]

It seems like we are talking past each other. And I have requested evidence which has not been sent, even after giving an example. I will end the engagement here.

[kcdjunique]

I think the feminist movement has really turned black women away from black men they are no longer working with each other they're working against each other so that feminist movement has done nothing good for our race

[kcdjunique]

If a man agrees with what is going on and that means that he probably doesn't even like himself as being a man because how can you as a man enjoy somebody putting you down all the time that's feminist.

[GreenJagWar]

If we look at the past, there was a time before when feminism and the Black family were still in existence together. I think a big disruption of Black community was the extension of government benefits for single mothers. What are your thoughts?

[Yautja]

What are your opinions on Feminism and its spread among most Black women?

First things first feminism’s influence on black women is nothing new, in fact, it is as old if not older that the influences of Critical Race Theory being taught by graduate students. Just so we are clear, and before I continue further, I wanted to state a basic understanding on what feminism is in the following:

Feminism, the belief in social, economic, and political equality of the sexes. Although largely originating in the West, feminism is manifested worldwide and is represented by various institutions committed to activity on behalf of women’s rights and interests.

Reference: https://www.britannica.com/topic/feminism

I believe as black men who had experienced (and still experience) a history of racism and oppression in the west in particular the United States, all women deserve equity in the social, political, and economical sphere of society.

Womanism?

Feminism is not womanism and many men have the issue of conflating the two together as if they’re the same thing.

How familiar are you with the history of feminism?

Intimately. Took a philosophy of women’s course as it relates to women and we spent the entire semester examining influential female philosophers and of course the development of feminism (1^st, 2^nd, and 3^rd waves).

Can you defend against feminist attacks on Black males?

Can you provide evidence like something quantifiable that this is so? I’m not talking about using television, social media, or the like, I mean an actual reference where I can verify if what you’re saying is true. If anything, I’m seeing women at least in the academic setting challenge white male patriarchal influences on society. White women as well as women of color (including black) have articulated that systemic oppression continues to funnel in inequities in the micro and macro ecosystems of society. My only issue is how feminism is articulated as some women often become aggression in trying to explain feminism, intersectionality, oppression, and patriarchy. I have seen this in academia where young-minded women, (even trans-women and some homosexuals) have become so fervent in articulating their views that it becomes extreme and even in some cases hostile. Some women who have went through sexual/physical trauma have also taken refuge in feminist philosophy and have misunderstood it as “all the man’s fault” without giving thought the lack of power people of color had and how systemic racism influenced the inequities in American society. This is how men like yourself misconstrue feminism with womanism because you might have been aware of fervent feminists who are combative and who articulate their points in a combative way.

Do you know that the first feminists were racists, that abortion’s acceptance in mainstream is due a good deal (did you mean has done a good deal?) in controlling blacks?

Are you referring to Susan B. Anthony? I mean no offense brother but if your intent is to educate and plan on educating us and making statements of fact it is best that you use references to back your claim up. I mean we do this all the time in graduate school, so I’m used to using references just in case folks here don’t think I’m making stuff up. People (not you) tend to misunderstand concepts like many right-wing whites have done with Critical Race Theory and misconstrue its basic viewpoints to suit their own worldview and people believe it. Therefore, in discussion it is incumbent on all of us to when making factual points to reference what we are saying so we can fact check. I understand many old heads don’t understand the framework of APA papers and/or knowing how to reference stuff but its simply using a website to link your point of view. In all my years of using internet forums I’ve met so many liars who exaggerate their points with “did you know this, and this happened?” Without citing anything only for me to find out they were referencing some blog or some website that was extremist. However, you are right in citing that the early women’s suffrage movement did have a racist past because the plight of black women was ignored as one article states in the following citing Mary Church Terrell who spoke at the National American Women Suffrage Movement in Washington D.C.:

“Her speech forced powerful white women attendees to reflect on the compounding oppressions and systemic violence that Black women endured during slavery. She ended on a more optimistic note — praising the sheer grit and intellect of freed women. Terrell’s rhetorical style echoed the American ethos of self-made men and women, but she oversimplified the historical reality that the paths to racial and gender equality are long, jagged, and still unwinding.”
(Reference: ACLU (August, 2018)

Do you have a different view of feminism and its place in the black community?

I personally believe how feminism is expressed by non-academics and simply internet research scholars it largely relates to “white feminism” than anything. So basically, take the aforementioned definition of feminism and simply add “for the betterment of ethnic white female culture.” Western culture has always interfered with the culture of non-white governments who do not subscribe to Western ideas of thought, this includes the general understanding of feminism. See what many of you don’t see are the academic feminists who blame the systems set up by white protestant males, not blaming black men. However, these are academics and what we are left with are again, fervent females who articulate feminism according to how they see it.

[Yautja]

I can't see feminism as anything other than a white supremacist issue created by white women to give them more power and to bait Black women into pressuring white men. Black men have none of the power that feminists speak about yet Black women are generally unwilling to hear criticism from Black men least of all. This is little more than a socially-enacted genocide.

This isn't even close to how academic scholars who are feminists view the world. White men hate feminism because feminist scholars point to white protestant patriarchy as the source of oppressive systems and even white women in academia are willing to acknowledge black men aren't the culprits. Although we have male privilege in the sense of equity (black men on average still make more than black women), white feminists who are academics know we (black men) have historically retained no power nor established systems of oppression in the west.

Womanism is still pro-woman but this is a more specific version for Black women to feel included in feminism. It has many of the same idea's as far as I know but may be a little softer.

I feel like you're really talking out of the limited understanding you have between the differences of feminism and womanism so let us recap what feminism is in comparison to womanism. According to the International Woman's Development Agency feminism is described as:

"Quite simply, feminism is about all genders having equal rights and opportunities.

It’s about respecting diverse women’s experiences, identities, knowledge and strengths, and striving to empower all women to realise their full rights.

It’s about levelling the playing field between genders, and ensuring that diverse women and girls have the same opportunities in life available to boys and men." (See:https://iwda.org.au/learn/what-is-feminism/)

What is Womanism?

"In addition to celebrating all women, womanists place special focus on issues specific to black women, men, and families. For example, Black Lives Matter was formed by four black women in response to the overwhelming police shootings of black males. Similarly, the #MeToo movement brought sexual assault to the forefront of the nation’s consciousness.

Through this movement womanists have begun to fearlessly challenge systems of oppression around the world."

(Reference: Howard University Law Library Retrieved at:https://library.law.howard.edu/civil...story/womanist)

BTW seeing how you didn't note Alice Walker the woman who coined the term womanist movement (or in your case womanism) was a black woman I'd throw that in there for you. I really don't think you know much about the movements and the distinctions.

what I am saying is that Black men and Black women are equally guilty of the violence in relationships. The stats, when judged evenly and fairly are pretty much one to one for relationship abuse and violence. That means Black women hurt, maim, and kill Black men too.

This is true now but can you provide evidence that during the creation of the feminist/womanist movements black women were violent as well? But what you've said thus far has nothing to do with the central message of feminism and quite frankly I'm beginning to think your knowledge surmounts to anecdotal evidence. I'm not saying to write a college paper on a forum but at least have something to back up what you're saying. You're basically espousing a point of view without displaying verifiable evidence. Oh let me guess you'll say "Google it." That would be the problem considering most people that don't know what they're talking about would say such things.

What else can be done about feminism in the Black community other than destroying and discarding it? It doesn't seek equality for Black women, instead it forces inequality since Black men already face the dominant judicial hand of the state, often a deadly occasion. Many women will even use the state against Black men. Is there any solution to this problem in the community?

I hope you don't debate someone who is an academic feminist cause judging by what you're saying they would eat you up bro. I do believe there are women who are toxic but your framework in your argument is misplaced and not reinforced with facts.

[Yautja]

I don't see any evidence of that. The messages of anger and hate for the Black man comes from feminists: white, Black, etc. Their message is still quite unified, so to claim posers would indicate that there must be some fighting or some arguments to show evidence of it. If not, then why make this claim?

You haven't even shown evidence to support your point of view

[Yautja]

Woman are equal in their ability to perform societal roles but in the construct of the family and even church, woman must have a different role.

Black people really irk me adopting the Judeo-Christian model of family and church when it is 2021 and the structure of family is changing. Are black men hunting Mammoths or Saber Tooth Tigers? No because those time periods have passed and our family structure based on those periods have changed. We no longer fear great beasts because they're extinct so we augment the family structure accordingly. Society is becoming more progressive (Thank God) with that being said, the Judeo-Christian and even Islamic model would have to compensate for the fluidity of the family structure. Because there are over 8.5 billion humans on the planet, this world is getting smaller which requires more space which also influences inflation and cost of living which in turn affects the economy as a whole. Things will become more expensive to compensate other aspects of society that are limited in resources. Unless you are part of the elite or in a high tax bracket gone are the days women stay at home while men work. Gone are the days women take a secondary role in the church/synagogue/mosque. Our society will change and eventually complete social equality will actualize itself.